NBC "Meet the Press" - Transcript: Interview with Cory Booker
Interview
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CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the Democratic senator from New Jersey, Cory Booker. Senator Booker, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
It's really great to be back on.
CHUCK TODD:
It's good to have you in person. We don't --
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
We're getting there. John Podesta earlier this week wrote a memo that said, you know, was basically sending a memo to both sides of this argument, moderates and progressives, like, "Look, you're going to have to come together." And to progressives, he said, "You're going to have to accept the reality that $3.5 trillion is going to get pared back." Do you concur?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Well, first of all, I don't like how this has been characterized as progressives versus moderates. This is Joe Biden's bill. And as he said to me in the Oval Office and a handful of others, he goes, "I've never really been a progressive. This is about seizing what is a once in a generation opportunity, like those who built the canals and the railroads, like those who built the incredible Eisenhower Highway Act. If we miss this opportunity, every dollar that we shrink it is a dollar that we're not investing in our future, and it's unfortunate. So how this plays out -- yeah, this is Washington. I'm sure there's going to be some kind of compromise. But to me, to compromise repairing our electrical grid or to compromise ending being the only nation on the planet earth, of industrial nations, that doesn't have paid family leave, that has its costs. And it's going to make America lose the boldness of the possibility of jumping forward as a nation.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there a sense here though that maybe, you know, there's an old saying that all of our parents used to say, "Your eyes are bigger than your stomach." Were the political eyes bigger than the political reality? Meaning, like, look, you're only -- you can only do as much as the fiftieth senator?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
That is 100% true. And I think a lot of times, we're losing sight of what we've already accomplished under this president. I was with a person from the Black media who just said to me, "Oh, well, voting rights and police reform. What's he done for the Black community?" I go, "What are you talking about?" I said, "We've cut Black poverty, child poverty 50%. We are the first president stepping up on Black farmers, maternal mortality, getting lead pipes out of the ground." Biden has wracked up one of the greatest agendas of accomplishments. It's unfortunate people don't see that. And if we do a $3 trillion bill, a $2.5 trillion bill, I'm going to push for as big and bold as we can. But it will be a historic investment in America. And unlike President Trump, who racked up $8 trillion worth of debt, and where did it go? Mostly to the wealthiest in our nation. This president, with the child tax credit, has given the biggest middle class tax cut in our country in generations. So I'm proud of what Biden's doing. And as we sat in the Oval Office, we passed -- moderates were coming out, progressives were going in. And he is really doing shuttle diplomacy trying to land this.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, and I guess I get, the question is what's with the, it looks like distrust from my perspective, in that you wrote this letter along with ten other senators that reinforced this idea, "Hey, don't bring up the bipartisan infrastructure bill in the House until the larger reconciliation bill is done." Why can't you trust centrists or moderates, however we want to classify the folks, that they'll be there? Why not pass this on Monday, put some points on the scoreboard for President Biden, which right now helps the whole party, and trust that the moderates will be there for this?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I don't think it's a matter of trust. I think it's a matter of I've been around here, this town, now for eight years, watching the best of intentions not manifest into something real. We were told that this was -- we'd see this as one package. The president as recent as last week has said, "Don't separate this. This is one package that we're looking at." And so I just want to make sure this is not about a bunch of people who are battling it out in Congress. This is about the American people. And to get half of this done and leave mothers who are looking for affordable childcare, Americans who are looking for lower cost prescription drugs, to leave people like that on the wayside, families that need that child tax credit, to leave those folks on the wayside is unacceptable to me. So I've seen the best of intentions. I want a more real guarantee.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, you just don't believe -- words not enough?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
No. Again --
CHUCK TODD:
I mean, that's what it comes down to.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
No --
CHUCK TODD:
Basically, saying that Joe Manchin's word's not enough here?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Look, I have been looked in the eye by people in this town and they've meant it sincerely. There's honor in them saying it. "Hey, Cory, we're not going to get this in such-and-such a bill, but we'll get to it." Well, sometimes that "get to it" turns out to be a year, the next Congress, or what have you. I'm sorry, when you have the leverage, you use the leverage, as long as it's not about ego or partisanship. For me, it's about the communities in this country. And by the way, Independents, 60%, 70% support what we're trying to do. Republicans, if you break out the policies that are in these bills --
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I want to get to that --
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
-- support it.
CHUCK TODD:
-- breaking out the policies. I'm having flashbacks to health care. I heard the same thing. "Hey, the individual parts are really popular."
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Yes. Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. Yes, they are. Should you be dealing with them in an individual piece here? I understand the situation of reconciliation, but you could be debating each part of this bill one at a time here, and you might actually get your message to the people that this isn't just a money grab.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Yes. I tell you, I was a mayor during the health care debates. And it took, you know, years before suddenly the Affordable Care Act, call it Obamacare, I know a lot people on the right don't like it, but now the Affordable Care Act polls above water for every group, Republicans, Independents and Democrats. So again, there is movements and moments. This is a moment for America to go big. We didn't tell FDR, "Hey, break it into constituent parts." We didn't tell Eisenhower --
CHUCK TODD:
But he did do it in different parts though, that's the difference, is that both LBJ and FDR did this in pieces.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
And they also --
CHUCK TODD:
Now, they had bigger majorities.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I was about to say --
CHUCK TODD:
I know.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
-- they had much bigger majorities.
CHUCK TODD:
Yes. But they did it in pieces.
SEN.CORY BOOKER:
Yes. This is realpolitik. And the reality is right now, we will have very small opportunities. You know what it looks like for the next Congress to move this big. People elected the president of the United States to do bold, big things that will change America. This is our moment. We should seize it.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. But during the presidential primaries, which you were a part of --
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
-- didn't the Democratic voters essentially send the message, "Do what's possible"? They didn't pick the progressive candidate.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Yes. They picked a moderate guy who has a great track record for getting big things done in the Senate. And that's why Joe Biden was joking with us in the White House. He's like, "This bill is not a progressive wish list. This is an American wish list." I said bipartisanship, when you poll the parts with Republicans, what he is doing is wildly popular with the Republican Americans who want child care and affordable college and affordable daycare. They want to make sure that we're meeting the challenge of climate change. So again, to characterize this as some -- remember, Bernie Sanders' first wish list was a $6 trillion package. This is significantly less than that. And the other thing is in Washington math, you've got to get upset about this. Donald Trump's tax cut was a $5 trillion bill. People called it a $2 trillion bill because $3 trillion of it was paid for. Paid for in the wrong way --
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
-- getting rid of our state and local tax deduction. This one is a zero bill. We're paying for the whole thing. But yet, we're -- we're using different math to make it sound bigger and more ornery.
CHUCK TODD:
I don't want to let you go without asking about your take on why police reform didn't come to fruition. Here's what Tim Scott said. He said, "Democrats said no because they could not let go of their push to defund our law enforcement." Is that correct?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
No. Again, why are we descending into partisan name calling or partisan corners? These are two guys that sat down, that worked very hard over nine months, got the FOP to endorse a compromise bill. And I never imagined we would get FOP leadership to come onboard. The International Association of Chiefs of Police who said, "Yes, our profession's in trouble." The families were with what we were proposing. It didn't work. We didn't --
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you think Senator Scott's using this language though? Because you've been very diplomatic, he's not being as diplomatic. Why?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
You know, I love him. I send him grace all the time. He is a friend of mine. The reality is I've gotten big things done in this town in this space with Lindsey Graham, Chuck Grassley and Donald Trump. We got big things done to cut --
CHUCK TODD:
Do you think McConnell didn't want him to cut this deal? Do you think there were others above him that were basically, like, "Do the best you can, but"?
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
I promised the families we were going to get something done. I'm still at work. I'm not throwing, I'm not throwing accusations at either side. I do think this town has got to learn, all of us, that to try to play the singular blame game, I accept responsibility. We didn't get it done. I haven't stopped working. We need to lift the frequency of this town, especially on issues like this, that all of America knows -- biggest demonstrations in this country's history for change. They want change from the federal. We didn't do it.
CHUCK TODD:
It's quite notable though that you're not taking, going politics here. Senator Scott is. Just saying.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Again, I've learned a lot over the last eight years, and that's not the way to get things done in the long run. And the families deserve -- we're going to still see videotapes of unarmed African Americans being killed. We've had tragedies in this country we've all witnessed. We've got to start getting things done. And the wonderful thing about it is police leaders understand it as well. We've got to get back to the table eventually and get big things done.
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Cory Booker, it's good to see you. Thanks for coming in.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
Appreciate it.
SEN. CORY BOOKER:
Thank you very much.
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